City Caucus blog ceases after 3 1/2 years

Daniel Fontaine and Mike Klassen (photo: Clinton Hussey)

photo by Clinton Hussey

Co-founders Daniel Fontaine and Mike Klassen agree to retire City Caucus blog

Vancouver, BC (July 3, 2012) – After 1,304 days as a go-to source of political news and commentary for British Columbians, the City Caucus blog (also knows as will no longer be updated. A labour of love started by two fans of politics and public policy – Daniel Fontaine and Mike Klassen – it was decided that the considerable personal time and effort running the City Caucus website could no longer be justified.

“It is with a heavy heart that we are announcing the end of the City Caucus blog,” says editor and co-founder Mike Klassen. “We are indebted to so many people for their support over the years. We’d like to thank our many contributors who truly made City Caucus a dialogue with a difference, as well as the hundreds of folks who’ve weighed into the discussions through comments, emails and tweets.

“We are also indebted to Vancouver’s media,” adds Klassen, “whose own work helped to make our work better and who understood instinctively that blogs can provide a credible source of news and information.”

Over the July long weekend the City Caucus blog surpassed five million page views. It was agreed by Fontaine and Klassen that they should end the blog on a high note.

“While we both have enjoyed creating a venue for so many unique and diverse points of view, I know the amount of time Mike has put into the blog uncompensated over the years and respect his decision to move on,” says co-founder Daniel Fontaine. “We’re both grateful to have worked with so many members of the mainstream media, and thankful for everyone who contributed to make City Caucus something we are proud of after three and a half years.”

Daniel and Mike will continue to comment on politics and news of the day at other venues. The CityCaucus Twitter account and Facebook fan page will remain active for news links and other updates.


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  • boohoo

    Well, thanks for the entertainment over the past few years.

  • teririch

    This is absolutely heartbreaking, but understandable. Mike and Daniel, you have provided an invaluable service over the years, and myself, along with many others will deeply miss your insightful and enlightening posts.

    I wish you both the very best in whatever you decide to move forward to.



  • Steven Forth

    Too bad, you guys were on a roll! Thank you for all of the hard work over the years.

  • John Newcomb

    Interesting that CC packing it in at same time as Vivian Krause stops her Fair Questions blog. Is there any connexion?

    • Hi John, no connection other than I think the example of Vivian and before her Sean Holman of Public Eye is that your passion for a subject can only get you so far. Priorities shift, and it’s time to take a bow and try something new.

  • Working Mom

    Too bad you are ending this great blog site. I sincerely hope this is not the end of hearing from you both in the political Arena???

    Maybe taking City a bit further and create a new political party that is center-right and that does indeed have a platform. Unlike the NPA. We sure do need a new party and it would be great to see the both of you involved seeing you both show so much care, love and concern for this great city.

    Best of luck to you both and thank you so much for your great website.

    Best regards,

    Working Mom

  • T Clark

    A very sad day for me and others who actually care about the politics here. You gave of your heads and your hearts and in a fair fashion. Please let this be adieu, not goodbye. I will so miss my morning read.
    As we used to say during my salad days,
    Go in beauty and in peace.

  • Good contribution over the years. Hope to read more from you in the future. I know I will!

  • Brian Kelcey

    Good run. You guys earned that 5,000,000. And it’s always good to see people who know when to quit, in the best of ways.

    But please, carry on causing trouble by other means.

    – BFK

  • Everyman

    This is certainly disappointing news, especially just after celebrating the 5 million mark. Best of luck in future endeavours.

  • bobh

    Sorry to read this, but I understand. The time commitment must have been a burden. What came thru was your love of community. You will be missed.

  • Daniel Fontaine

    A big thank you to all of our readers/commenters over the years. City Caucus truly was a labour of love…and I’ll never forget the experience. It was a blast!

    Probably one of the most memorable (and time consuming) activities I undertook with the blog had to be the Where to Be for Free Guide during the 2010 Olympics. Amazing that we had hundreds of thousands of downloads in only 17 days.

    While I won’t be appearing on City Caucus any longer, you can always read my weekly civic affairs column in 24 Hours Vancouver every Thursday. I will also be tweeting regularly at my personal account @Fontaine_D

    Thanks again to everyone for your support over the years! I’ll miss all your thoughtful comments, barbs and opinion.


  • City Observer

    Another independent voice lost.

    Thank you Michael and Daniel for your fine work this past three and a half years. CityCaucus will be missed.

  • gman

    This blog was much more successful than the five million hits would suggest,you really got people talking.Thanks for all your hard work and dedication.You will be missed.

  • Betty

    Thanks Daniel – As a volunteer during the Olympics, the City Caucus “Where to be for Free” was a treasured resource!

    Actually, it became more important than all the other information material we passed out.

  • Peter Walton

    Thanks guys, I’ll miss your side of every civic story. Let me know if you’re interested in teaching someday Daniel. You know, close the circle from student to teacher so to speak.

  • Jim Fraser

    Congratulations on a job well-done. It’s a shame to see you close but of course perfectly understandable; you spent a huge amount of time on this project and you received no salary for it. It couldn’t go on forever this way. But we are the richer for what you did. Thanks very much for everything.

  • Jen

    Happy trails and thank you for the posts.

  • Eric

    Many thanks and all the best!

  • The Angry Taxpayer

    Onward and upwards, guys.

    Thanks for the provocative and entertaining times.

    Not “goodbye’, but au revoir, perhaps?

  • Brilliant

    A real shame. Who will hold Vision’s feet to the fire now? Definitely not the mainstream media. Reading between the lines, I guess this means Mike won’t be running in byelections to fill Vision shipjumper slots on Council….

  • Ken Lawson

    Sorry to see you guys go, you did a great job of keeping us update city politics even though we do not like some of the Politicians, Have every success in your futures, Hope fully Mike will be on City Council one day, we need people with experience and a open mind.

  • Karin Litzcke

    Darn, I just got hooked! All the best, especially if this means you ARE running if there are byelections (or even if there aren’t)!

  • Congratulations Mike & Daniel on yours of success but condolences on ending City Caucus.

    We’ve mostly disagreed on politics – not always – but I have admired your commitment & dedication to the blog and what we do share: our great love for Vancouver.

    Good luck in future endeavors – outside politics that is – and good work making all of us think more about our city!

    • Bill, your comments mean a lot to me and I’m sure Daniel as well. Thanks.

  • Sorry – “years of success”! Damn iPhone keyboard & autofill.

  • Victor

    So sad, Mike and Daniel. Vancouver will be worse off without your commentary and point of view on City Issues. Too bad you cant be compensated a la VV’s paid bloggers. But thanks for a few good years of giving so many concerned Vancouverites a place to express their thoughts and frustration at current City management.
    Do hope this means, that when the sun comes out, that you can put your feet up with a glass of wine or two and savour life while plotting your next great adventure.
    Also sorry that there seemed to be noone forthcoming to compensate you for your efforts. A lot of work and now the Opposition Voice has gone from City politics.

  • Ken

    You will be missed. You did a great job. Thanks.

  • Pingback: CityCaucus blog by Mike Klassen and Daniel Fontaine retires after 5 million page views, 1,304 days. CityHallWatch wishes them the best | CityHallWatch: Tools for engagement in Vancouver city decisions, creating our future.()

  • Higgins

    A sad day for Vancouver. A sad day for political dialog. A sad day for the out of the box thinking. A sad day for me and others who loved to come here and read and comment on all the different stories!
    Good day for Vision, Robertson, VO, and all the poli-buffoons out there!
    After Vivian k. packing up her blog as well, this city… is no longer news worthy. It appears that we should all go into the charity movement… where there’s all the money.
    Thanks for the time and effort you put in, and for creating a one of a kind experience. I’ll miss your posts and contributors.
    All the best. 🙁 🙂

  • waltyss

    I am not of your political persuasion and only recently discovered your site. However often the articles allowed for a good debate. Other times, unfortunately (Jason Bateman comes to mind) the articles demonstrated a low level ever for advocacy. However, we tend to be richer for these sites and you will be missed.

  • Julia

    yup, a sad day. You have now totally messed with my morning coffee routine!

    No doubt we will still see you around, even if it is not as often.

    All the best to both of you.

  • tf

    I rarely agreed with the opinions posted, but always appreciated the writings.
    Thanks and all the best for what’s next!

  • Thanks for the interesting posts, certainly I await whatever the future holds for some pointed views on the happenings in City Hall

  • skippy

    Thanks for the many great insights, particularly on Vancouver civic politics and the forum for unfiltered debate. Your passion and efforts will be missed.

    All the best for whatever the future holds

  • Ned

    Just stepped outside Vancouver for a few days and this happens?
    Someone, please pinch me. This is not happening.
    It’s been great having City Caucus in Vancouver, a great place to share and disagree on anything local or not. To say I’m sorry to see you go would be an understatement.
    What can I say, I wish you all the best, and hope that one day we’ll gather on a City Caucus 2 again!
    Don’t say no… 🙂
    Take care, Mike & Daniel you both did a great job!
    Thank you!

  • alex

    To echo many others, a sincere thank-you to both of you for your passion and contribution to public conversation.

    I too disagreed with some of your opinions and proposals. However, you often reminded me that there is plenty of middle ground and lots of room for well-informed policy that can win support across the political spectrum. Many of your posts also pushed me to question my own default positions and for that I am very grateful.

    Well done and the accolades you’re getting are well-deserved.

    -Alex Etchell

  • Thought of The Evening

    “Just when I was about to reveal my name, my real name…oh, well…”

    Writing and commenting on City Caucus felt like shooting a movie based on a screenplay written and adapted on a daily basis. The reader never knew in advance what they were going to get.

    If you didn’t know, the best covering of the 2010 Winter Olympic Games was right here on City Caucus, and not in the MSM!
    Politics, civic issues, polemics, sports, music, environmentalism, poetry, debate, bikes, bikes, bikes, satire… all here!

    I am glad I was part of all this, even for a short time, and for that I have to thank to both Daniel and Mike. I also have to thank to all the commentators that made the two way dialog possible.

    I also think that for this last post there could not have been a better picture than the one with the, ahem, three of us… Daniel and Mike, enjoying themselves with one of my very first comments, you see… 🙂

    Thanks for the memories guys.
    To the best duo I never met, this is for you:

    To the readers of City Caucus, thank you for hanging in there. Till we meet again…

    We live in Vancouver and this keeps us busy.

    • Richard Unger

      Dear Glissando,

      Nice farewell words my dear chap.
      You brought a smile on my face every time I read your comments.
      ““Just when I was about to reveal my name, my real name…oh, well…”
      See, what I mean? Sarcastically funny till the last moment. I am sure Mike and Daniel appreciated your witty posts. So did I and I could only assume many other readers.
      If I’m ever going to become computer savvy I might follow you on twitter. 🙂

      Looking forward to hearing from you soon.

      Yours sincerely,

      Dr. Richard Unger MD (Ret)
      Thanks for the smiles and

      • Richard Unger

        This line should have read:
        “You brought a smile to my face…”
        Last line should have read:
        “Thanks for the smiles and more…”
        Emotional today 🙂

    • Ms Jones

      Sure thing I’ll miss your posts, Glissy!
      BTW what’s on your mind. Like… going back as the fox inside the Vision chicken coop over at Frances Bula? LOL! Any thoughts of starting your own blog… (wishful thinking on my part)? 🙂

  • Victor

    And of course…we will miss Glissando Remmy who has enlightened us so amusingly and with such sophistication and thought provoking comments. (Will he pop up somewhere else?)

    What a loss of a threesome!

    Sad, sad, sad.

  • Sarah Blyth

    I won’t say I’m say im sad CC will be gone;) , but thank you for your service and participation in democracy.

    All the best,


    • Thanks, Sarah, and thanks for representing Vision Vancouver here.

      • Richard Unger

        I won’t be so candid in my comment. First, I don’t know if anyone have noticed the slurring in Sarah’s message. Didn’t anyone tell her to never write after too many victory Bloody Marys!?
        She didn’t check her message, because it was written in a condescending tongue in cheek tone. Which at best, describes a toddler sticking her tongue out from behind her big brother. Vision, deh!?

        • waltyss

          Comiing from someone whose posts have constantly demonstrated dementia and overstaying cocktail hour, your comments are really choice.

          • Ned

            Waltyss, why are you still here? Really?
            I have to admit… 🙂 City caucus is addictive. Only I thought you are on something stronger, that’s all.
            My bad!

    • Tom Logan

      Question for Sarah Blyth:
      Are you a real skateboard chick, or are you just a betty? Or should I say a barney?

      • I’m not hip to all skateboarder vernacular. I hope that comment is not meant to be crass.

      • teririch


        From what I ‘heard’ from someone who worked on the Vision campaign in 2008, Sarah is not a real ‘skatebeoard’ chick, but they Vision saw an opportunity to tack onto a ‘niche’ market. (They also had someone bringing in the pot smokers)

        This is why the rise in ‘skateboard parks’ came about and at the expense of other community ammenities such as pools

        Hey, notice Critical Mass isn’t around anymore?

  • Thank you Daniel and Mike for your dedication, and particularly for your support of alternative opinions, not just in the comments but also in posting submissions from a wide range of political perspectives. We are all the better as a result of the resulting dialogue.

  • Richard Unger

    Dear Mike & Daniel,

    Smashing news! Of the bad kind.
    I really am sorry to see you pack things, I can only imagine how hard it mus have been for you two to hang in there knowing that this day will come. And keep it a secret for some time…
    I wish you luck and all the best in all your future endeavors. I know you’ll land on your feet. For three and a half years you kept Vision Vancouver’s feet to the fire. If it wasn’t for people like you, maybe this gang would have finished this city by now. Unfortunately there is still time for them to do that.
    If only more people would wake up to their phony presence.
    Maybe a new site will start up in the next few days/ weeks/ months to balance the spin and lies coming out of the City Hall.
    We’ll see.

    All the best dear chaps,

    Dr. Richard Unger MD (Ret)

  • Mira

    When one door closes another one opens.
    Wishing you a new beginning, Mike, Daniel City Caucus.
    I’ve been visiting your site for a few years now, and I loved it. Disappointing outcome. People should have come here more often? Maybe you should have adopted a Tyee or Vancouver Observer way of financing… like calling yourselves a foundation/ non profit/ charity and launder funds for Tides… I don’t like the way it turned out, but as Bush once said ” if we don’t allow them to raise chicken coops and plant wheat lawns and destroy our streets with bike lanes then the terrorists have won…” 🙂
    Have a nice summer guys, enjoy the sun, you’ll think of something. You are two bright guys!

    Thank you.

  • JJ

    All the best guys. Kudos to you for a job well done!

  • Tunya Audain


    So, Vivian Krause, Sean Holman, and now City Caucus are leaving their watchtowers!

    Much good as they’ve done, these whistleblowers and champions of free expression only tend to make us more lazy – less ready, willing and able to jump in.

    Even if I’m RW&A the home wherein to lodge a concern is missing. Letters-to-the editor are rarely accepted. Blogs are there as steam valves, mostly to say something then go on with our lives.

    So when we place a comment on someone’s do-gooder blog site we are further relieved because we think this person will run with it. And, sometimes they do.

    But all this is so frustrating when we face well-organized, well-greased operations that lack the transparency and morals we expect — that we’d like to challenge. Ridicule, a staple of some, is just so much water off a duck’s back to these entrenched powers.

    Much as these voluntary sleuths occasionally uncover corruption and coercion it’s all hit-or-miss. Again, something the establishment factors into their survival strategies.

    I’m wondering why New Zealand scores as “Least Corrupt” on the Corruption Perception Index. (Canada is 10th out of 180 nations.) Do they have a lot of dedicated and funded corruption detection agencies or a lot of volunteer watchdogs?

    One guess I have is that they have experienced two generations of self-rule of their schools. Each school has its own school board with the consumer (parents) predominant. Think what this experience of self-government unleashes into the community as a transferable skill! I think that has a lot to do with New Zealand’s good school scores and its “Least Corrupt” perception score.

    Where many are skilled in self-government, democracy works well. Dependence on 21st C Paul Reveres when our freedom is threatened is not enough.

    Thus it is while I mourn the loss of City Caucus and others who become burnt-out from their watchful positions I am getting ever more alarmed for our future in BC.

    With the provincial election looming we will see PR wars as never before. Big bucks are pouring into communications, spin, media manipulation, etc., etc. Susan Lambert, BCTF president, has already forewarned us: “I think clearly the teachers of BC have decided that we are going to make sure that public education and the health of public education is a vote-determining issue in the next election.” Of course, money is no object here.

    Totalitarianism lurks. I will not be voting for big union or big government.

    But where will we talk about the alternatives?

  • Paul H

    Thanks for all your efforts gentlemen. I wish I had discovered your blog earlier as I enjoyed the diversity and debate! Good luck in your next endeavor. Mike, are you still looking at staying in politics?

  • Terry M

    Shocking news!
    I enjoyed yor blog very much. A good mix of commentary and information. I will miss your posts… A lot!
    Thanks Mike, Daniel and all contributors.
    Terry M

  • politics101

    Wish you guys all the best in your future endeavors – some posters – probably Vision supporters seem happy to see the demise of this blog and it’s getting a rough ride over on Babble but I wonder how many of them remember a left leaning blog called Civic Scene and a person who ran it called Jonathon Ross which ceased over a year ago – in case some of you have forgotten here’s a link to their now defunct blog -

    Thanks once again for the giving me something to read in the morning and cheers!

    • boohoo

      I googled ‘babble’–you mean I’d never seen that page before but I don’t see anything about citycaucus?

      What are some other blogs out there?–other than fabula I don’t know many…

      • politics101

        It’s on a thread in the BC/Alberta section called BC Municipal politics.

    • teririch


      Funny you should mention Ross, I guess that $50K contract provided by Vision was a sweet ride until he was outed.

      With that said: he popped his head out of the sand during the last civic election. When I asked him if Vision was paying him to do their ‘social media’ dirty work (he truly is a viscious little bugger) he twisted and kept trying to divert the conversation.

      He never did answer. And just as oddly, soon after the election was over, he cleared all of his tweets – wiped his feed clean.

      Oh, and what IS Ross’ relationship with …Kash Heed?

      Never got an answer to that one either.

  • Jack Sparrow

    I used to read your blog any other day, probably commented once or twice… but I read your postings consistently for the past three years.
    You had something real going here. It’s too bad it has to end so abruptly. Long ago I stopped to read/ trust the so called Main stream Media. The only difference is … they’ve got the money! I’ll miss your ramblings, and if there is any consolation in me saying this, I’ll not go over to the likes of Vancouver Observer or Tyee to read their fluffed up, feel good about themselves pieces, paid for by their “charitable” friends.
    Good bye City Caucus!

    • waltyss

      There are those of us who like to hear a variety of views, particularly those that challenge our assumptions. it makes for being well informed.
      There are others who like to live in an echo chamber where all they hear are their own pre-conceived notions.
      So………heeeelllllllooooooo, Jack.

      • Ned

        On second thought, I think Waltyss is none other than Johnatan Ross of the “CivicScene” fame LOL! It’s his style.
        BTW, Waltyss, many people in here left a message with you, it ended in …off! Did you by any chance came across it? 🙂

        • waltyss

          And then there are those whose sole contribution to any conversation is a variant of "**** off" Take a bow, Ned. These are your folks Mike and Daniel. When you read the "intelligence" of someone like Ned, hopefully you will understand why NPA and its camp followers are outside looking in.

        • That might be a good guess, Ned.

  • Bill

    Democracy works best when there is an effective opposition to government which is lacking at city hall from within the elected ranks of council. You have performed a valuable public service by providing a forum for that opposition outside of city council and this will be missed.

    • Steven Forth

      Hear hear. Should the NPA split in order to renew itself? Or is a new Vancouver politcal party needed? In any case, I hope we can go beyond the creaky left-right frame.

  • david hadaway

    Sorry to see you go, there are still plenty of articles of yours that are required reading to know what goes on in our city. Best wishes in the future.

  • teririch


    If you are a shining example of the typcial Vision voter, then no wonder the city is swirling the toilet bowl.

    Tit for tat my friend.

    • waltyss

      @teririch: Sorry you think our beautiful city is a toilet bow. Most people love it. But then given your proclivities, I know you would prefer to see it as an open pit.

      • waltyss, what you and your Vision Vancouver cohorts don’t get is that you, in fact, are flushing “our beautiful city”, a city that has become a very special place to live and work, and which has considerable additional potential to become an even better human scaled, neighbourhood friendly, sustainable city, down the toilet. And, like the analogy, it ain’t a pretty sight, but when it’s gone, it’s gone.

        • politics101

          Bill – you and Mike ran for the NPA in the last election and neither of you were elected so I guess one could say that it wasthe policies of the NPA that were flushed down the electorial toilet bowl last November.and while you guys got my support the people obviously wanted a different “Vision” for the city.

        • Steven Forth

          What you don’t get Bill is that Vision has done a far better job than the NPA in creating, yes, a vision for Vancouver that many people can agree with – a vital, green/sustainable, active city that welcomes the input of a wide variety of its citizens and not just the political insiders that are used to calling the shots.

          I am one of the many concerned about the influence developers have at City Hall, but this is hardly new, and just look at the financial backers that own the NPA. Not an attractive bunch.

          Vancouver has huge challenges for sure. Homelessness and poverty. Affordability. How to grow local businesses and support local innovation. How to remain attractive to the most creative, intelligent and entrepeurial immigrants from around the world. How to become a truly sustainable and resilient city on all three dimensions of sustainability (environmental, economic, social/cultural). None of these will be easy to address and we are going to need new ideas and new people to move forward.

          And at the end of the day, these are not the fault or responsibility of politicians. You want to know who is responsible and who can make changes? Look in the mirror. It is the decisions each of us make every day that matter most.

          • Mira

            Steven and Politics 101…
            You are both delusional. Typical talk from people temporarily on the wagon of power (Vision in this case) living in a dream land where they are the most beautiful people on the planet, riding their bikes with front baskets made by Amy Robertson on her Cortes retreat, on separated bike lanes, that takes them to the beach and their ubber expensive posh farmer’s market, but then delivering food to the undernourished and housing those down on their luck…
            BTW – FAILED on both counts!
            That’s the reality you two. No amount of bleach will whiten the BS you are shoveling in here, boys!

          • Steven Forth

            Sorry Mira but I am fat, in my 50s, none of my bikes have baskets, I don’t know the mayor or anyone on council personally, and riding a bike is a lot cheaper than using a car. You have any solutions to suggest or just bile to spew?

          • teririch

            @Steven Forth:

            Look outisde of bike lanes and farmers markets and all that is ‘cosmetic’ wrapping and you see the clear deterioration of this city. In case you are unaware, I am on twitter campaing about the Burrard Street Bridge and the severly past due neglect. Next time you and your Vision with ‘a vision’ buddies are pow-wowing – ask them what is their ‘vision for the historic Burrard Street Bridge’, and what happened to the ‘budgeted dollars’ for the repairs? What did your darlings spend it on????

            How can a ‘City’ claim to be ‘green’ when it is falling apart at the hands of that ‘City’.

            And for your to feebily point a finger at the NPA for being in ‘deep pockets’ holy crap! That is truly a rich reach considering the HUGE US dollars flowing here to support Vision, along with the $$ from the development companies that are getting their payback at the expense of the neighborhoods and citizens, and who bailed them out of their $350K deficit prior to the 2008 election.

            See a pattern of money mismanegment here?

            Wow, you truly have no Vision if the only thing you worry about in this city is freaking bike lanes and farmers markets and all those other pandering sweet ‘touch points’. You are Vision’s dream, voter.

          • Steven Forth

            @teririch Look at who controls the NPA. I much prefer Vision. And I remember the NPA governments. Some good ideas, like ecodensity, but in general a preference for big projects that play into the hands of big developers. The core of the current NPA board would no doubt love a casino. No thanks. Tides Canada does good work, look at the actual projects. Yes, Burrard needs reinvestment. So do many things. To simplify Vision the way you do shows that you are deeply misled by your own propaganda. Try looking at the facts. Fortunatly, the electorate can see through people like you.

          • waltyss

            Steven, may I answer for you. She has nothing to contribute except that she has rather odorous bile to spew. And even there, she is not particularly good at it.
            She hates Vision. So what. A majority of Vancouver’s citizens who choose to vote overwhelmingly supported Vision and I have no reason to believe that support has ebbed. Well, maybe it has ebbed in what passes for Mira’s mind but I doubt it.

          • waltyss

            Sorry, but I must still my beating heart. Did teririch, shill in chief for ethical oil and all of the foreign owned oil companies busy buying page upon page of magazine and newspaper ads and television spots chide us because the environmental movement may receive some money from American environmentalists. Teri, honey, are you really that lacking in selfawareness? Is it possible.
            As for the Burrard Street bridge, I understand the city engineering department believes the bridge is safe and sound. Have you got ethical oil engineers to say something different.
            And nowhere, except from you in your delirious state have I heard that the City under Vision is foregoing repairs on major bridges in favour of bike lanes or farmers markets. The suggestion is so ludicrous that I suggest that you come up with some facts before leaving that suggestion.
            Teri, honey, I think you have been drinking too much tailings water.

          • politics101

            How Mira can call me a supporter of Vision when I stated that I voted for some NPA candidates and a group of independent is ridiculous.

            Mira’s views on the Hornby St bike lanes are well known – what the critics of the bike lanes have yet to explain to me but perhaps in the vastness of the world wide web I missed it – is just what steps would they take to make it safe to ride a bike in the city and in particular in the downtown core where somewhere around 80,00 to 100,000 people live – using the logic of some of the bike lane critics who suggest that the lanes are empty much of the time and should be removed and given back to the driving public – perhaps city sidewalks that don’t have anyone walking on them for hours on end should be removed and converted into an extra lane of car traffic.

            The Burrard Bridge is around 80 years old and like any 80 year old is showing age – wrinkles are showing as cracks in the concrete and exposing rebar – the bridge will have to be replaced but with the power of the neighbourhoods in this city good luck on trying to get an alignment that anyone will like and let’s not forget that the land under the south end of the bridge is now Musqueam first nations land so that input from them is also required.

            Vision won the election and while I am not happy with the results in a democracy they are entitle to implement the policies they proposed.

  • Steven Forth

    Fascinoating to see how long the comments on CityCaucus are echoing back and forth. It would be great to have a place to continue the fun. Suggestions? It will need to be a place open to all sorts of political points of view and will not be for the thin skinned. It will probably need to rallow for alias’. I know I am on record for questioning the courage of people who post using an alias, but then it let’s people like Glissando Remmy participate and others who want to (i) protect their identity because of their job or (ii) be rude and idiotic (which adds to the fun). So where can we continue the conversation?

    • Yeah, I wish there was a way for the conversation(s) could continue. It’s not the same but our Facebook page and Twitter accounts are still there for short bursts.

      • Steven Forth

        I think Fb requires people to reveal their identities, and I think that has more negatives than positives for this purpose. And much as I like the discipline of 140 characters I wotuld miss the longer rants (including my own). I will spend some time on the weekend looking for a solution. Which platform is CC on?

      • Ms Jones

        Yes. So it is true. I am so sorry to see you leave the blog world, Mike. Thanks for everything. It must be hard for you guys to see how the people are still coming here to pay their respects. I wish you the best of luck.

  • Eli

    I’ll miss your daily updates and the insight they provided.

    Going to check out your fb page now…

  • jenables

    Wouldn’t it be nice if the cov had forums that were as open as this, that we could comment on? Snicker..think of how that would really pan out. I assume i will see most of you on bulas blog, or Harveys the odd time. Cc, i loved you best from about 2009 to this time last year. I was in agreement on many civic matters, more so when i didn’t feel those views were tied to other, more insidious things. Thanks for all the hard work, the blacked out fois, (you have to beveeery specific indeed, almost psychic, to get the information you want) walrus, i mean waltyss, and Steven, and of course, boo de la hoo, I’d be willing to bet we’d agree on some larger issues that don’t offend my center center sensibilities, or involve using the taxpayers money to inconvenience or expense them into choosing a mode of transportation that may not work for them. Mind you, we all own and drive cars, I’m just not trying to assuage my “guilt” by arguing against what i an doing. Wink! I hope we can all exercise our critical thinking elsewhere. Quick! Someone start a coffee talk blog! You only have to post two, maybe three words and then “talk amongst yourselves, I’m getting all veclempt (no wonder those orthodox Jews visited me at work every Friday, trying to school me, that’s probably a phonetic spelling). Maybe just “open post” and a picture? Come on guys and thank you cc!!!

    • Steven Forth

      No we don’t all own and drive cars. None of my kids do (and one of them has a child) and less than half of their freinds do. Others have cars bacause we have chosen to design a city in which many people must be dependent on cars. This was a choice and we now have a choice about how we want to design Vancouver going forward. Do we want to require people to own cars and will we continue to direct almost our entire transportation investment to the personal car?

      • Bill

        If none of your children and half of their friends don’t need cars then how can you say that people are forced to own cars? Like all aspects of life people have to make choices – type of employment, where to live an, yes, how to get around the city. You can’t always get what you want, but if you try real hard…….

        • Steven Forth

          Fair point. But the city does not make it easy. The only places we go downtown with our grandchild are ones easily reached by the seperated bike lanes. So we have to accept quite a few limits along with not using cars. Of course if there was light rail on Broadway and on the Arbutus Corridor that would be great. And my daughter-in-law seems to get around pretty well by bus.

  • Everyman

    @Steven Forth-It sounds as though what you are saying is that it is OK for developers to fund and influence political parties and decisions that enable them to a profit, as long as it can be spun as fitting a green agenda.

    Consider this, in the big scheme of things whatever little greeen gestures Robertson and Company make will have virtually no effect on global environmental issues. However, what they sacrifice in this city we live in will negatively impact us all at the civic level.

    • Steven Forth

      Nope, I am also concerned about the influence of big developers over Vision, and think it inevitable as long as real estate development plays a large role in economic activity.

      I would like to see a basic change in how we approach development so that it could be better grounded in local communities and much less dependent on large developers. You will not get that from the current NPA though. Perhaps a third party is needed.

      But then I doubt that one can get elected in Vancouver without the support of the big developers.

      What is the negative economic impact of the green agenda? Bike lanes, chickens, urban farming, all seem to be positives and certainly make the city a lot more liveable than designs based on subsidizing car use. Some businesses will benefit from changes in transit, others will lose out. Sorry, that is the way it works.

  • jenables

    Nope i meant waltyss, boohoo, you and i specifically own and drive cars, Steven.

    • Steven Forth

      OK, but I use my bike much more often than my car, and so far this year I have more total kilometers by bike than by car, even though I have been out to the Okanagon once.

      • politics101

        Steve – I am in a similiar situation and if I add in the kms that I walk each day here in the downtown core – it roughly equals the number of kms driven. A 10 year old vehicle with less then 95,000 kms and that total includes several trips to the Rockies for hiking holidays.


  • Brilliant

    Poor Waltsyss, bitter to the very end. Guess he’ll have to find another bridge to lurk under.

    • waltyss

      Brilliant not: you never fail to disappoint. I predict you would be graceless and in each post you are.
      Whatever bridge I lurk under, I pray you are not there. But then I think I am safe because I believe you prefer to lurk under rocks.

  • teririch


    I realize the Burrard Street Bridge is of a certain age, but the issue I have is the overall lack of maintenace. Why let it slowly fall apart, which in the long run will only cost tax payers one hell of a lot more money to 1) overhaul 2) replace

    Repairs can be made, and I am not talking about slapping a bit of paint over the exposed rebar which seems to be what is happening.

    To possibly lose this historic icon due to lack of maintenace is unacceptable. What is it with Vision letting everything that is heritage in this City go to pot?

    $20M for a bike share program and no money for basic upkeep of this City.

    Saw this hash tag today #cutthegrass

  • skippy

    Will the Parks Board Meeting tonight, July 9th, where they will discuss the destruction of Langara Golf Course, be open to the public? Anyone wise to workings of the Parks Board know??

    • Kas24

      All I can say to some of you is – do you ever have some of the facts wrong! I am very privy to information regarding the workings of this city. If only some of you knew the real ‘truths’. I would ask like to ask that some of you do some research into what Vision and the Park Board Vision puppets are really up to before you make comments based on your ideologies. R. Isaak, Glissando and Skippy are closer to the truth than most of the bloggers here, and I thank them for that. Unfortunately, I wish I could provide the facts, however, there are reasons why I cannot and I am sure some of you have figured out why. Take a look at the demographics regarding where the high percentage of votes were cast in support of Vision. It actually explains quite a bit. Ignorance is bliss.

    • Kas24

      Skippy – all Park Board Meetings are open to the public. Go to either the Park Board or City website to get information on when the meeting are being held. They are also required to publish the agenda ahead of time. You can register through the website if you wish to speak at the meetings. Best of luck to you!

  • teririch

    @Steven Forth:

    I almost spewed my coffee when I read your statement ‘Tides does good work’. Good one, thanks for that! LMAO.

    You state that I am blinded by my own ‘propoganda’

    Look at the donators list for Vision – and you want to sit there and lecture everyone on the evils of the NPA and their associations with big dev. Did you miss all the press on RIZE and Vision’s sellout to the neighborhood? Seriously?? Wow, talk about turning a blind eye.

    Now we get to face the possiblity of losing public golf courses, and please don’t even mention it will ALL remain ‘green space’ If you believe that one, I have a deteriorating bridge to sell out from under you.

    Community pools shut down and replaced with skateboard parks, roadways that have been patched together. Weeds growing as tall as toddlers, yet we are suppose to buy the shtick that is was planned as a ‘meadow look’….

    Give me a break.

    As for you suffering so, because you can’t ake your grandchild anywhere there is no sperated bike lane, talk about a sense of self entitlement.

    How did everyone else mange their day-to-day lives/business before the sacred ‘bike lane’. If you can’t take your grandchild out, that problem or excuse lies at your feet, no one elses.

    Wow. You fit the Vision demographic square on.

    • Steven Forth

      Hope your coffee was not too hot. If you bothered to read my comments you would see I am also suspicious of Vision’s connections to big developers. But realitically, it will take real political effort to get a group elected that is not closely aligned to big developers. It is the way Vancouver has been run for many years. And yes, my values are much more in line with those of Vision than they are with the espoused values of the NPA leadership.

      As I live near 4th, I could have taken a street car downtown at one point. But then the car lobby canned street cars. And why should I be forced to use a car? It is the car lobby that has a deep sense of entitlement and do not want their massive subsidies questioned.

      I wonder how long the CC echo chamber will sustain itself?

      • Bill

        You’re losing it, Steven. If you view limitations on where you can cycle with your grandchild as a transportation issue then you are just confirming my point that cyclists are elitists.

        You are very quick to defend subsidies for the bike share program that benefits a small minority of the population as positive because it is a “public good” yet “subsidies” for cars that benefit (and are paid for) by the majority of the population are bad. When is a subsidy a “public good”? Whenever Progressives deem them to be whether to fight climate change or create a more “liveable” city because they are higher purpose people unlike the peons who don’t know what’s good for them.

        • Steven Forth

          Lost it many years ago. What percntage of the city budget would you allocate to cycling infrastructure? Zero (what Vancouver did for decades), less than 1% (where we are now), less than 3% (where I would like us to be), something higher? Forcing people to use a very expensive form of transport, cars, is what is elitist. There are many people in Vancouver who can afford bikes and not cars, and there are others who are willing to give up the high cost of a car to live closer to downtown. Why are you so opposed to this choice?

        • Steven Forth

          Out of curiosity, where did I say I favour the bike share program? I believe what I said is that I regard it as a legitimate piece of public infrastructure and that my support or not would be coningent on the operating plan, a plan I have not had opportunity to review. I am in favour of a more balanced investment in different modes of transit and that will mean more for pedestrians, a modest amount more for cycling, more for transit and yes, less for cars.

  • waltyss

    We all tend to behave in ways that benefit ourselves or at least provide the least inconvenience to ourselves.
    When we elect our leaders, we hope that they will rise above this and not fall prey to every nimbyism from whatever direction possible. The Vision regime is doing that. You or I may not agree with all or any of what they do; but they have been clear about the direction they want to pursue from day one.
    You of course are free to complain and raise your voice as well as unseat the current regime in the next election. For example, that happened when the populace grew tired of the NPA serving only developers and the West Side.
    On the issue of the bike share program, I think you will find that support for the most part is bipartisan. Most people think it a good idea and the only issue is whether to uphold helmets or not.
    No-one is saying that “subsidies” for cars are bad. They are a fact of life and will continue to be so for the foreseeable future. Every road in one way or another is a subsidy to cars. Rather we are moving to more of a balance in those subsidies between those hwo drive cars and those who don’t. In addition to being more fair, it will actually contribute to the overall health of all of us. Where the proper balance should fall is a subject worthy of reasoned debate.
    At this point, there is not a bike lane that keeps you from driving on any particular street, and that will not change with a shared bike programme. Most of these changes will make Vancouver a more “liveable city”. Or would you rather be Los Angeles or even Seattle
    Your suggestion that Steven is elitist because he wants more places to cycle with his grandchild is ludicrous. Whether he wants more protected bike lanes for that purpose or because he sees cycling as a cheaper and healthier way to get to work or to move around to shop, it is a transportation issue. You remain free to continue to do so in your car; except that now it may be a bit more expensive or inconvenient. Sharing often is.

  • Bill

    @waltyss and steven,

    I am not opposed to cycling and I have said on many occasions I support spending tax dollars on cycling infrastructure but for recreation and not so as to pretend it is going to meaningfully contribute to transportation. But to use tax dollars to make the bike share program viable is like providing the sports equipment so people will use the parks.

    The only other real point of conflict is the segregated bike lanes that negatively affects far more cars than it benefits cyclists. (I don’t object to the painted bike lanes because no one ever uses them so they don’t really slow things down.)

    That is really generous of you to not oppose “subsidies” to cars. Considering the vast majority of people derive a benefit from cars and they not only have to bear those costs (through their taxes) and direct costs of car ownership they also have to pay the majority of the costs associated with public transit. Drivers are the same people who pay most of the taxes to all levels of government.

    And Stevens desire to have more places to cycle with his grandchild is his “transportation” issue which I doubt is shared by very many people.

    • teririch


      Here is another one for you; I just read a piece on the Tyee site on ‘Big City Farming’. It seems the ‘city’ is providing (speak subsidizing) SOLE Foods with a total of 5 lots to ‘farm’.

      I was aware of 3, but the one that caught me off guard is the 2.3 acres to the side of the viaducts.

      Concord owns that property and as it is a prime piece of real estate (hence Meggs’ w*t dream to take them down) that has to be some pretty pricey tax revenue that is being lost.

      The article states that in 2010, they brought in $40,000 in revenue. Great, the lot next to the Astoria where they are set up is a loss of tax revenue to the tune of $150K by itself.

      They are selling the produce at ‘Farmer’s Markets’ – with an example of a bunch of radishes for $3.50 which places them out of reach for low income and seniors, students…

      Now am I wrong in understanding that services are being cut or reduced because there is a budget shortfall?

      Next up – the golf courses. Seems the messaging from the Mayor and messaging from Jasper are not matchy, matchy The city report included a value should a portion of the Langara Golf Course be ‘sold off to developement’ – $676 M.

      Now. I wonder how long before the excuses will come as to why that public land needs to be let go off. Let’s insert the words ‘affordable housing’.

      And, one more – a 22 page report on 2220 Kingway – huge development planned.

      Vision not in bed with the dev’s – give me a break.

      • Steven Forth

        Who said Vision is not in bed with big developers? The point is that both Vision and NPA are and that if I have to choose one I much prefer the NPA. If you want to argue we need a new party that provides different options I agree.

        • Everyman

          Steven, did you really just say you much prefer the NPA over Vision?

          • Steven Forth

            I did! Maybe a Freudian slip. I prefer Vision to the current NPA but I can’t see the current NPA staying around much longer.

    • Steven Forth

      @Bill why do you believe that “but for recreation and not so as to pretend it is going to meaningfully contribute to transportation” when in fact it already does in many cities and could do so in Vancouver. Do you believe that the individual car is the only viable mode for the bulk of trips? What role do you see walking playing? Or transit? Or (dare I ask) a bike share program?

    • waltyss

      So you don’t oppose bike lanes that noone will use because of safety issues. How humane, how demonstrative of the milk of human kindness!
      Anyway, I think you would find that you are in the minority on this one.
      As for bike lanes negatively affecting drivers, I drive down Burrard and Hornby every day, and I am still waiting to be affected. Most days when i go home there is more congestion in the three lanes going north than in the two lanes going south. In other words, the only drivers who are being affected are those who are determined to be affected.

  • waltyss

    2ms ethical oil, sorry, teririch:
    Frank Giustra’s foundation is supporting these guys to the tune of almost $1/2 million dollars. Remember, if mining is for it, so are you!
    I have no issue with the direct grants to this enterprise; they are relatively small compared to those from Vancity and Giustra’s foundation.
    With regard to the agricultural endeavours, this is all an attempt by the developers and property owners to reduce property taxes. It is not something controlled by the city but is either a function of the BC Assessment Authority. I understand that the city has tried to shut this down but I don’t know if they have been successful.
    As for the golf courses, the question being discussed is a legitimate one. In a city so short of useable land, are golf courses on public land the best public use of the property? I don’t know the answer but it will be a useful debate. Of course, ms ethicaloil sees all of this as a gift by Vision to developers. Clearly factually wrong on the first one; likely wrong on the second.
    Teririch; I think you should stick with your usual position: if mining or oil are for it, so are you. And Giustra is for it, so step in line.

    • teririch

      ahhh waltyss;

      Shilling for Vision eh?

      Seems you are holding onto a lot of ‘inside’ information – like the city trying to shut down subsidizing land used for ‘farming’ purposes but can’t due it because it is the Province’s fault. Do I beleive that for one minute…..ummmm, nope.

      Odd, as when you read through the list of names involved in SOLE Foods, there sure are a lot of ties to big daddy warbucks, Joel Solomon and his Endswell/Renewal store front.

      And waltyss: if you are trying to ‘discredit’ me simply because I work in the resourse sector, you’re going to have to try harder.

  • waltyss

    Ms. ethical oil:
    First I did not say that the city tried to shut down subsidizing land used for farming purposes but can’t due (your wording) it.
    I try not to make fun of people who can’t read but in your case it’s hard.
    Most vacant land in the downtown core is zoned commercial until it is developed at which time it goes to residential zoning and taxing. Trying to reduce their taxes, businesses and developers try to move the land into another lower land use category. The one that seems to have worked is a category (I don’t know which) which is allowed if the land is used for community gardens (eg. Davie and Burrard) or the parcels of land below the viaducts. As you pointed out (about the only thing you were correct on), doing so costs the city money by reducing the taxes it collects. The City tried to stop this and may have done so (on this I am not clear at this point). Whether it was successful or not (and on this point, it was not something the city was promoting by any means.
    Stuck with these parcels (even if successful in moving against changing the designation, these would be grandfathered parcels), the city has tried to make the best out of a bad situation by supporting urban farming on those parcels. You would have supported open pit mining on those lots. So, there may be a legitimate debate on whether the city should promote this use of those parcels (in the case you cited to provide work and employment experience to people in the downtown eastside, not to feed the poor (as you deliberately lied about and which the Tyee article made clear was not the intent of the project). While you may go for the open pit mine, other people prepared to put their money where their mouths are (Vancity Foundation, Frank Giusta’s foundation, for example) are prepared to support it. ( appreciate that in your addled brain anything that Joel Solomon supports is bad; anything big oil supports is good).
    Anyway, teri honey, them’s the facts. I don’t care that you don’t believe that to be the case. You are a trained seal who barks when big oil says bark. Facts are not on your horizon or in your vocabulary. In the event you can figure out what a fact is, then prove me wrong. Otherwise, believe me, trying to convince something like you is nowhere on my mind.
    As for discrediting you, I don’t have to do that. You manage that all by yourself.

  • teririch


    If you can link me to ‘big oil’ in any which way, kindly let me know; someone owes me a paycheque. In the meantime, you hang on to that misplaced assertion.

    As for the farming issue, you truly need to point out where I stated any of the following as I mentioned neither:

    (in the case you cited to provide work and employment experience to people in the downtown eastside, not to feed the poor (as you deliberately lied about and which the Tyee article made clear was not the intent of the project).

    And here is another little something for you to chew on: Teck (another big evil mining company) recently held their annual fundraiser benefiting Children’s Hospital. Within 3 hours they raised $1,259,783 through their pie throwing contest. It was great fun to watch – held outside of the Art Gallery. Barney Bentall played and one of the original ‘Legendary Hearts’ was with him.

  • waltyss

    @teririch. Well if big oil doesn’t pay you, you have certainly drunk their Kool Aid.
    As for Teck being a “big bad mining company”, when did I say that. I support mining provided strict environmental restrictions are in place. Enbridge? That’s another matter.
    Teck’s contribution to Children’s: Good on them. A hearty congratulations. I wish more companies stepped up to the plate.
    With regard to misrepresenting the Tyee article, you deliberately left the impression that $3.50 a bunch radishes were out or reach of poor people (true) and that somehow this was bad and contrary to the projects intent.

  • boohoo

    I’m in Europe now and man do these kinds of conversations look amateur. Vancouver is an infant of a city.

  • R.Isaak

    Vision has accomplished a few things

    1. They have presided over us becoming the 2nd worst traffic jam on the continent!

    2. They have politicized development to the point of complete and utter disorganization.

    3. They have succeeded in getting the federal Government and Rev Can to finally audit Tides and the plethora of foreign trusts that are attempting to control our politics from abroad to further their own economic gain.

    4. They have by never taking responsibility for and by ignoring past precedent condoned the very act of anarchy that was the 2011 Hockey riot (aka Gregors Riot).

    5. They have ignored many of the vital services we have for decades relied upon the city to provide.

    Most Importantly 6. They spawned a whole raft of opposition that caused this very Blog and will no doubt spawn a few more given the complete lack of regard for the voting public exercised by the F__King Vision Hacks!

    @Steven Forth please include all the kerosene burned in the jets you so love commuting on in between Bicycle trips. @Waltyss, you are the worst poster here and the complete lack of class you show will no doubt make you a left wing star.
    @Doc Unger, thanks for the honest posting of your views, may they never tarnish. @Glissy, you are invited to help me drain a dram of fine single malt anytime. thanks Mike & Daniel for the forum, it will be missed by many.

    • Thought of The Day

      “Nostalgia… goddammit!”

      I have mentioned in one of my recent tweets, to both Mike & Daniel, as they were in the middle of a collegial contest for the post with the most comments, so I said that this one would in fact easily surpass 200 comments!
      I’ll give it till the end of this month.
      You know that City Caucus did a good job when you realize that people are still drawn to the tour of a building scheduled for demolition. And it’s not for that weird “accident – can’t look away” thingy that most of us humans are born with, but, IMHO it’s because of… nostalgia.

      R. Isaak,

      🙂 By the time I finished reading your 2nd point I was standing up in front of my computer.
      After I finished the 3rd, I was already saluting the flag.
      During the 5th I I was surrounded by my family, who in the anticipation of the 6th finale, were waiting for the champagne to pop.
      And it did, when I read you mentioning the invite for a dram of malt.
      Thanks for that.
      But mostly thanks for formatting Vision Vancouver’s record in SIX easy bullets.

      I know they are an arrogant bunch, but what I’m going to say it’s been proven over and over and over again throughout human grandstanding:

      “What goes around, comes around!” I know it, they know it, it’s just a matter of time and just retribution.

      Till we meet again…

      We live in Vancouver and this keeps us busy.

  • Brilliant

    @boohoo-give our regards to the Europeans and their crumbling economic union. As they well know, its amazing how sophisticated and greenie one can be as you burn through money you don’t have.

    • LMAO!… simply Brilliant!
      I’m not going to say where, ok, it’s in the land of “Amore”, where once I asked, “…how come the people are so outgoing, vocal, they pack terraces, drink coffee and chain smoke cigarettes…”
      And I got the answer from one local “they like to act cool, and people-watch, drink on credit and smoke borrowed cigarettes, because they don’t have jobs, the unemployment is somewhere 10-12%, and their only hope is to hit a well to do American/ Canadian chick/ heir…
      La Dolce Vita!

    • Steven Forth

      Of course the coutries with the most complete and successful green strategies have the most robust economies and are carrying the rest – would that Canada had an economy as strong as Germany. Or if you prefer a closer comparison Norway or Sweden. Even Japan’s economy is outperforming Canada, despite the lingering impact of the tsunami.

      Or if you want a more holitic view, check where Canada is doing OK but is losing natural capital and we suck at developing our human capital. So GR and ‘not so brilliant’ you have again failed to do your homework.

      • Bill

        Steven, doing your homework means more than reading the top line from your Google searches. Japan’s growth in the first quarter was due entirely to government spending – incentives to consumers to puchase cars and investment to repair damage caused by the earthquake and growth is expected to decline over the balance of the year. So they piled on more public debt which already stands at a whopping 229% of GDP, the highest in the world.

        Japan funds its public debt internally and is the extreme example of intergenerational downloading. All developed economies have resorted to this in lesser degrees in order to maintain current standards of living. If young people ever figure out that they have been screwed by an entire generation and not just the “1 percent”, well, let’s say we had better be careful who we give health representation authority to. Fortunately, they are the product of a good Progressive education which should buy us some time.

        • Steven Forth

          You are the one that needs to go deeper Bill, Japan’s GDP per employed person has grown steadily over the past two decades and it remains a leading innovation economy.

          It is the US that is the extermre example of intergenerational downloading, not Japan.

          But we may agree that intergenerational downloading is a huge issue in all of the OECD countries and in China. It is something that we need to address now.

          You may enjoy Shrinking Population Economics by Matsutani. His policy ideas are relevant to Canada, especially on tax structure.

          And Japan made a great many bad policy decisions in the first 15 years following the bubble’s collapse when it tried to stimulate the economy through dumb infrastructure investments and it still needs fundamental tax reform.

          • Bill

            Steven, virtually every OECD countries GDP per employed has grown and in most time periods that growth has exceeded Japan’s which is well down the list in terms of current GDP per employed. And it has taken significant deficit financing to even get to this position.

            So what happens down the road when the population has declined and there are fewer and fewer workers to support an aging population? People are going to need to cash in their “savings” that they have socked away in Government securities. So how is the Government going to pay them and still keep stimulating the economy?

            I do get very pessimistic that we will be able to solve our serious economic problems when intelligent people like you can think that Japan is headed for anywhere other than the edge of the cliff.

        • teririch


          Japan is also paying immigrants to leave; a way for the government to protect jobs for it’s citizens. And once they take the money and airline tickets, there is no coming back.

  • Steven Forth

    And speaking of ‘buring through money you don’t have’ the champion is not Greece but our friends to the south that you so want to emulate, see

  • boohoo

    Lol. You guys are a sad lot. You keep fighting that bizarre fight.

  • waltyss

    Glissy old pal, for once (don’t let it go to your head) you are right. Vision in time will lose. Maybe the next election, more likely the election after. But that is democracy and a healthy democracy needs a change of parties from time to time. We will see it provincially next May.
    However, it is unlikely to be NPA which was and is tired, purposeless and astonishingly bitter. That’s what happens when people who believe they have a god given right to rule are defeated. They get really bitter, like Isaak, like Brilliant not, like teririch, and yes, dear Glissy, like you. So go drown your sorrows with Isaak where both of you can spew your bile without fear of contradiction or, dare I say it, facts.
    Vision is a bit like democracy, a mess but much better than the alternatives on offer. Like Steven I would prefer no parties at the civic level, but one plays the hand one is dealt and in that hand, like a significant majority of Vancouver votes, I’ll take Vision.
    I believe it was you who called Vancouver voters stupid; certainly that is what you and Isaak and your other fellow travellers believe. You should not be surprised that the sentiment is reciprocated.
    So Glissy old pal as we say farewell, at least on this blog, remember: We live in Vancouver and that means that keeping tabs on tne right wing nutbars keeps us busy.
    Hast Luego!

    • skippy

      Heh there Waltyss, Can you show me the link to the Vision Vancouver campaign material from the last election where they indicated that if elected, they would be closing down Langara Golf Course. Thanks.

      • teririch


        It is not just Langara under ‘review’, all 3 of the public courses are under Vision’s fuzzy eyeball.

        Now remember, these are people that found reason to close down the Stanely Park Petting Zoo (rest in peace little animals) and took a swing at closing down the MacMillan Bloedel Conservatory, which FYI was (originally) gifted to the city. If it weren’t for at that time, private citizen, and now NPA Parks Commish – John Coupar’s rally to save it, it too would be gone.

        • waltyss

          @ oilqueen I think that Vision is trying to close down the city. Must be Joel Solomon. Or maybe another conspiracy.

  • waltyss

    @skippy: they didn’t and no party would. They haven’t decided to close down Langara Golf Course and I suspect that given the reaction they are getting it won’t go very far.
    However it is a land use issue and it is legitimate to debate whether the amount of land that an 18 hole golf course uses in a city with a real shortage of land is supportable in terms of the amount of people who use it and as to other uses.
    It is disturbing that the opponents don’t even want the facts to be known of what that usage is.
    That said, I tend to be of the view that the Golf course is there and let’s leave it. However, I don’t golf and quite frankly, I don’t feel strongly about it one way or hte other.
    Taking your point, I guess you won’t be voting Liberal this next provincial election.

    • skippy

      Well, it would have been useful to have had the debate during the election and we could have cast our votes to support candidates on the matter of whether golf courses are a good use of land in the city rather than being blindsided with the issue 7 months into the mandate. Its pretty fundamental to the parks board mandate. As far as utilization facts and the openness of opponents to same, with Vision determining what facts will be disclosed and the benchmarks against which those facts will be measured, that is hardly an open, fair and democratic process. Jasper has sated 9 holes is a good option so he had made up his mind. He should also get his facts straight about revenues and costs as he has mis-stated both consistently. I am a bit disappointed because I did vote for the young man Trevor Loke. He was the only candidate who plays organized sports (an appreciation of “recreation” in parks and recreation) and he voted in favour of the motion. Had I known he supported this review, I would not have so voted.

      The provincial election….I’ll see you on another blog for that one.

      • waltyss

        @ skippy What I will not miss from this blog are those who believe that anything Vision says or does is done in bad faith and anything Klassen/Fontaine/Anton/Sullivan say is correct and decent. I hate the opposite proposition equally.
        A report will be brought forth and you and others will be free to criticize it, to bring forward facts that you believe have been omitted or even misstated.
        But not to be able to even go to the gathering the facts stage??!! Sad.
        I also have little time for one issue voters. He did x and so I will not vote for him. You are free to do that, of course, and no doubt you will. However, I would hope that we elect leaders, not delegates. I have lived many decades and I have never voted for someone with whom I agreed on every issue that they had to address once elected. I hope that is ever the case. When I vote, I vote for the candidate that on balance most reflects my views. That is my approach and overall it has worked for me.

        • teririch


          Just curious, what exactly is your association with Vision, because you certainly speak the speak.

          And why do you think Vision has the reputation of ‘doing things in bad faith’. Track record perhaps?

          • waltyss

            @oilqueen aka teririch:
            I will assume your question is sincere even though I know it is not.
            What is the Vision speak I speak. Is it that I do not simply assume bad faith and the worst as you do? If so, I plead guilty.
            If Vision speak is wanting to see facts before coming to a point of view, then again I plead guilty.
            Beyond that my only association with Vision is that I voted for them in the last election because on balance they were better than what the NPA or COPE had on offer.
            As for Vision’s reputation, I suggest that it has that reputation only among NPA hack, big oil apologists like you. You will recall that a significant majority voted for them and if an election were called today, they would be re-elected by a similar majority.
            You having an open mind about Vision? Well, we are clear it is not open and the jury is still out on whether there is a mind.

  • Eleanor Gregory

    The comments to this your last post illustrate the importance of thinking and writing about politics. Your blog has attracted a wide-ranging audience. I haven’t always agreed with what you’ve written but I have always appreciated the fact that you were there. Best of luck to you both. I will miss checking out what you have to say.

  • Brilliant

    LOL, and Waltsyss has the galll to call other people insulting as he throws epithets around. Such hypocrisy, one can see why he’s so mesmerized by Gregor and Vision.

    • waltyss

      You may want to look at the thread to see who started it. If attacked, as I have said before and as you well know, I will respond.

  • teririch


    I guess referring to an article as being well balanced automaticaly makes you a ‘big oil apologist’ – whatever.

    You seem to hold inside knowledge that others don’t (general public don’t) hence my question.

    Some of paid attention to KAS24’s posts.

    Now, back to reading the ‘hate mail’ comments being directed at Vision PB Commish, Aaron Jasper and the other Vision PB Commish s that voted to review the partial or complete closing of Langara Golf Course. A LOT of unhappy Vancouverites.

    • waltyss

      @oilqueen aka teririch:
      That’s what I love about your kind. if you oppose a policy, even at the debate stage, you resort to hate mail. Sad, but if you ever wonder why people like you are not listened to and are very much in the minority; it’s because you quickly resort to hate mail.
      As KAS 24, anonymous people who resort ot “if only you knew what I know’ are not worthy of being listened to because there is no way of judging whether their statements are true, false or simply some disaffected employee spewing,. You of course will give him or her credence because what KAS24 has said fits with you ideology.

  • gman

    Vision are simply following the ICLEI handbook,they have never had an idea that isn’t related some how to ICLEI.Even the name Vision,how many people know the name ICLEI give to their little brainstorming meetings?They call them visioning meetings.And at their most recent multi-million dollar lobster fest in Brazil they told members to no longer refer to global warming as the public no longer responds well to it.Instead they want to push things like biodiversity or sustainability.But even these term are causing suspicion in the public eye so they are promoting another term to index how close to dissaster the world is and this term is…….I kid you not…..are you ready for this…..THE HAPPY PLANET INDEX!!!!!!!!

    You couldn’t make this sh@t up!!!

  • 101 and Stevan. You both have made valid criticisms of the NPA, particularly re: the last election. I’ve said it was a dismal failure in spite of the money spent. To negative, irrelevant and misguided policies, and way to far to the right.

    In spite of the spin waltyss and other Vision Vancouver ideologues put out, there are many in the NPA who are not off the right side of the political spectrum chart. They are intelligent citizens who want the best for Vancouver and are willing to step up and do something about it.

    Quite a number also believe that local area plans and zoning bylaws should be respected. And developers must work within approved plans not make up the rules as trey go. That is what VV is doing. The harm will start to be evident in the next few years. It’s very sad because we were on a good course and Vancouver could have become even more liveable and sustainable.

    • waltyss

      I will concede that I have disliked the NPA since the days when they only represented the westside and felt it their god given right to rule.
      Even so, I always voted for some NPA candidates for council. Don Bellamy for example and even on occasion George Puil.
      I voted for Suzanne Anton as councillor but like you thought she ran a disastrous campaign for mayor and really deserved to lose.
      I voted for Vision in the last election and do not regret my vote. Do I support all Vision policies/ No. I oppose subsidizing shared bicycles for example although I supported and still support the bike lanes. I am waiting and seeing about the Georgia Street Viaducts. Like NPA, I believe that Vision is too much in the pocket of developers but I vote based on what is available.
      Does that make me a Vision ideologue. Only on this blog where anyone who is not a pur laine NPA supporter must therefore be a Vision ideologue (McCreery) or a Vision insider (teririch).
      Interestingly, I think it is the NPA supporters who believe that Vision supporters act in bad faith, are all pawns of Joel Solomon or similar matters.
      I don’t believe that all NPA supporters are right wing ideologues although you would never know it from reading this blog. I too believe that most if not all of them want the best for Vancouver but that is also true for most if not all Vision supporters. Tell me, are you prepared to concede the latter part of the equation: that most if not all of us want the best for Vancouver even as we may differ on what that is.
      If you have facts about local area plans or zoning bylaws not be respected or rules being made up as they go along (in some unusual way) then I woud love to hear about it. I am prepared to be convinced but not by anonymous self described whistle blowers like KAS24 doing a “if only you knew what I know” shtick. That may be someone who is in the city administration who has something relevant to say; or it may be a disaffected employee sowing dissent or it may be someone who simply from an ideological point of view disagrees with some positions being taken. I have no way of judging so I discount it completely.
      Personally i prefer to look at matters issue by issue and not hew to one civic party or the other’s line. I would in fact prefer to see no parties and to see wards. The truth however is that I will not soon forgive the NPA for its campaign against wards. Even though it is now being hoisted on its own petard. With wards NPA would have more seats on council but that’s what happens when you get greedy.
      Anyway, if you want to share your views on what the good course Vancouver was on and when and how it went off course, i for one am happy to listen and discuss.

      • Mira

        What the hell? Don’t you have anything to do with your time but … still come in here and RANT!? Obviously you are missing this Site more than others, buddy boy.
        What, they shushed you from other blogs?
        You are an ass, did you know that?

        So I guess from your desperate appearances in here that Europe either bores you or they don’t treat you with the respect you deserve, am I right?
        If it’s none of the above you are an ass too!

      • Ms Jones

        Three posts and this is what you write:

        “That’s what happens when people who believe they have a god given right to rule are defeated. They get really bitter, like Isaak, like Brilliant not, like teririch, and yes, dear Glissy, like you. So go drown your sorrows with Isaak where both of you can spew your bile without fear of contradiction or, dare I say it, facts.”

        “Vision is a bit like democracy, a mess but much better than the alternatives on offer.” (this one is the most hilarious of all)

        “This is so incredibly stupid but what does one expect from oillady and ned.”

        “The point is that you simply do not know what happened to him. You are right to ask but you are acting like an idiot when you suggest that his removal somehow demonstrates the failure of the Mayor or Vision.”

        Then you end your rant as if nothing happened, you did nothing wrong, said nothing wrong, and you have no idea what’s going on, the forever victim of prejudice and hatred, LOL:

        “No Steven, you are wrong. City caucus has two many hysterical haters like these two.”

        Waltyss… you are a joke!

    • Steven Forth

      Bill, if people like you are leading the NPA I will give it a close look in the next election. Generally I don’t support three term governments.

      On the other hand, I would be happy to vote for anyone that “Mira” and some of the other nut jobs on this blog oppose.

      • gman

        Steven its disappointing to see you call people nutbars and lower yourself to name calling, for some reason I thought you were above that and this pattern seems to have increased over the last few months.But I guess desperation causes people to say things that are embarrassing to them after they push the post button.If you could be more specific it may be helpful.

        • Steven Forth

          @gman You are right, thank you for calling me on this. Anyone who takes the time to comment on a civic politics blog deserves basic respct. I wish there was a place for us to continue the conversation, which is fan and sometimes productive but has now drifted off as it needs the stimuli of new themes.

          Mira, I apologize.

  • waltyss

    @Mira thank you for your “constructive” name calling.

    • skippy

      Back to your response to my post. I did not suggest that Vision was acting in bad faith. i am skeptical of the fairness and openness of their analysis when both Jasper and Robertson have prejudged the outcome. According to Jasper 9 holes would be fine as many of his friends would like to “bang out 9 holes after work.” BTW, as a golfer for 35 years, I have never heard that phrase used before but I digress. As for the feasibility of Langara as a 9 hole course I suggest you read the Georgia Straight article on same. Robertson, as quoted in the Vancouver Sun was his normal “enigmatic” self stating that public access was an issue and that the course was not biodiverse. On the latter issue, again refer to the Straight and their informed interview with a naturalist who contradicts Robertson. On public access, well that is silly. As for your assertion that I am a one issue voter and you seemingly glib comment that I will continue to be, well that is not the case. We are talking about a pretty narrow issue…parks and recreation. My recreation is golf. I play on the municipal courses every weekend from April up to Remembrance Day so it is an important issue for me under the governance of a political body with a very narrow scope. So, on that basis, I do have some “buyer’s remorse” after voting for the young Mr. Loke. That notwithstanding, he is still and interesting candidate given his unique background and I understand he brought forward the motion to substitute non-chlorine agents to ensure the safety of public swimming pools. Sensible and it enhances the recreation experience for all. On the matter of facts. I like facts. Jasper does not. He has misstated the revenue and costs figures for the golf courses twice. An item I blogged about on the Province website and a fact they subsequently corrected. So Jasper is prejudging and misstating facts in the press and Robertson is contradicted by experts. So, yes I am skeptical of their ability to get it right when they are indicating they have prejudged the outcome and they sputter nonsense in the press.

      • waltyss

        @Skippy I think your points are valid ones and I will stay tuned. If they have not already made up their mind, I suspect that they may be regretting riling up the golfers.
        I too read the article in the Straight and, in my view, the issues of biodiversity, multiple uses of park space weigh in favour of retaining it as a golf course. I do not support converting into any kind of housing and believe the Mayor was offside in his musings.

        • Steven Forth

          Given our evolving demographics, golf is likely to become more popular not less, and there is no inrtinsic reason a golf course should not contribute to biodiversity even if many current courses do not.

  • boohoo

    Uh no Mira, but thanks for being oh so stereotypical. You stay classy.

    • Mira

      No, boohoo,
      You stay ballsy yourself, on your European tour, dear.
      Steven, thanks! Same here!

  • West End Gal

    Wow! People are still coming here after so many days! Way to go City Caucus!
    “Gone, But Not Forgotten” a Vancouver novel…

  • Everyman

    The more I reflect on it, the more I wonder if it was a coincidence the decision to close CC occurred just days after the NPA’s AGM…

  • teririch

    Gregor’s (broken) promises to the homeless:

    On July 12, around 8:00 am, an incident occured in the alley behind my apartment which involved one of our local homeless, a man who has lived peacefully in the alley for approx. 10 years.

    City workers came to take Chris’ carts and he attempted to defend his property by hitting at one of the workers with his old push broom. The police were called by the city workers which resulted in 4 police cars and one police van responding. Chris (age 62) resisted arrest. Guns were drawn and from one witness account, he was shot with a rubber bullet. When he was slumped against the garage door where he typically slept, he was cuffed and taken away.

    As I walked down the back alley when this mess had just finished, I asked one police officer if Chris was okay. He responded ‘He is now’. At that point I had no idea what had transpired – my fear was that Chris had been attacked and hurt, or a medical issue had occured.

    I called to the VPD on Friday morning and spoke with one of their operators in an attempt to find Chris – to make sure he was okay.

    I was told there was no record of an incident in the area.

    Chris is our friend. We looked out for him and in one fell swoop he is gone. Every trace of him has been wiped clean.

    The neighborhood is not the same without him. He is one of our ‘fixtures’ and we want him back.

    Robertson and Vision with all their promises to ‘help the homeless, have failed, miserably.

    Chris had stability in this neighborhood andnow, who knows where his is at. And what happened to him lies at the feet of Vision Vancouver and Robertson.

    • Steven Forth

      Have you cross posted this to the Georgia Straight, The Tyee and other places.

      And please keep us updated here on what you find out.

      Your important comment shows the need for a real site where the people of the city can caucus.

      Does anyone have suggestions?

    • Ned

      Yes Teririch,
      Robertson as “Chief” of Vancouver’s Keystone police force is just that. Don’t bother with Vision Vancouver either, as they only take care of their own cooperators.
      Police can move their bravest sadomasochists around the province or bring their “best” punk from Alberta, no problem.
      Remember Robert Dsezianski murder by police at YVR? One year later one of the four involved, killed a motorcyclist in a DUI Hit & Run accident. Any news on that asshole? Didn’t think so. Really is DISGUSTING! Keep us posted on Chris, I only hope he’s OK!
      As for the city workers, they probably acted on ORDERS from Mayor/ City Manager Office.

  • waltyss

    This is so incredibly stupid but what does one expect from oillady and ned.
    It appears an incident happened where a homeless man was taken away. It’s alleged that city workers came to take this man’s grocery carts. Why? We don’t know; it may have been in response to complaints from neighbours about the noise the carts were making. It was apparently 0800 and in summer in particular we tend to keep our windows open. Someone at the city may have thought that was the best way to handle it ( I can say with confidence that the mayor would not have been involved.). The was resistance and the city workers apparently called the police. Seems to me to have been the right move in the circumstances.
    It appears he was removed. Maybe to the hospital; maybe to a psych ward; maybe to a shelter (I guess, teri, would prefer that he stay in the street rather than get housing or even a shelter).
    Oil lady then says:”Every trace of him has been wiped clean.” What are you suggesting? That the VPD have killed him and thrown the body in a dumpster?
    You certainly appear to be suggesting something sinister.
    The point is that you simply do not know what happened to him. You are right to ask but you are acting like an idiot when you suggest that his removal somehow demonstrates the failure of the Mayor or Vision. It appears to have fed your hysterical hatred of Vision but lacks any facts except for facts which can demonstrate something dreadful but more likely something innocuous.
    And Ned, as vacuous as you are if not more so. What does Dziezanski have to do with the City of Vancouver, Vision or the Mayor. The individual was an RCMP who, except for certain federal crimes like narcotics, do not operate in the City and are not under the control of the city. The guy was convicted for DUI and is awaiting being terminated by the RCMP. What is it you expect Vision to do in the circumstances?
    No Steven, you are wrong. City caucus has two many hysterical haters like these two. Most other websites or blogs have intelligent discussion rather than the rantings of people like teririch or Ned. Unless of course, brilliant not appears which it is wont to do.

  • teririch


    Sometimes it is hard to figure out if you are trying to be deliberatley ignorant, or, if that is just your shining personality.

    Thankfully, there are those that look out for people like Chris, something you seem to know zip about yet are all too ready to add your ‘two cents worth’.

    And that is all your opinion is worth, two cents, if even that.

    • waltyss

      teririch, I am inclined to say that since you define ignorance, you oughta know.
      However, I won’t and will only say that you posted something that you claim had political overtones when you had no facts to make it political. How then am I being ignorant when I point that out? Tell me where I am wrong.
      And your attempt to suggest that somehow something awful has happened to this man at the hands of the police under the direct instructions of the Mayor is despicable when you have no facts to establish it except your own close minded hatred for Vision and the Mayor. But that is what we have come to expect from you.

  • jenables

    Whoa. You know, i don’t play orcare about golf, but they REALLY need to leave some grassy, foliage rich areas in this city. They seem to want to guilt most people out of their homes, which normally have yards, yet they don’t care if yards are destroyed by big ugly houses taking up the whole lot. Will these yard s and golf courses be a thing of the past, only to be replaced by “eco townhouses” and towers? ( i wish i was kidding..before the York theatre was magically saved, the original developer was planning “eco tow.houses” i can only asunder they are scared of actual green things, rather than shambolic gestures. Vegetation cleans the air and cools the overall yelp in the best way Furthermore, why is the cov taking so many garbage cans at bus stops away? So you can hold onto your trash on the bus? They tried to take away the actual container part of the garbages for a couple days or week as well. I thought one of the roles of city hall was to take care of them by emptying them, not throwing out the whole container. Then i finally walk my dog at the ov at night and i see many, many, conveniently placed solar powered trash cans/compactors. Not to mention a ton of public art. A note on vancity…don’t you think they are very political for a financial institution? And isn’t that illegal? Their 2009 annual report says it all right on the cover, just google it. Well, you can’t see the thick Lustrous paper it was printed I, but i think you will understand. Lastly, for now, the happy planet index!!!?? Yeah people will be sure to responsd will to that…snicker. I bet the plastic bottles hp comes in makes the planet super happy. Not like they could use glass. You taste that plastic with every sip

  • jenables

    Haha, i just re read my comment. It looks like it was re-worded by aliens. Maybe i should try looking at what i am Swyping before i asunder the overall yelp in my tow house if i want to make sense…and i do.

  • jenables

    The power of word suggestion, vindictive text.

  • boohoo

    You’re pathetic Mira. And so bloody negative. I think this blog drowned in negativity.

  • West End Gal

    boohoo & waltyss…
    You never disappoint. Your comments have never been more …
    waltyss… calling people idiots several times in one post makes you win this race to the bottom.

    • waltyss

      What did you want me to do; compliment her on a remarkably vile posting where she alleges something awful happened without any facts to back it up other than the man is no longer at what she alleges is his usual spot. She insinuated that this man was removed, erased, somehow exterminated on the direct orders of the city. Without an iota of evidence to back it up she spews disgusting allegations of wrongdoing without anything to back it up; What would you call it? Literature?

  • Brilliant

    Poor Waltie, spewing bile to the very bitter end. It must be lonely being an NDP supporter on the West Siide. Lemme guess, academic, civil servant or some other job keachong off the public purse?

    • Steven Forth

      @Brilliant, do you think the BC Liberals or BC Conservatives have many supporters left on the West Side? Perhaps among the entitled classes who don’t want their subsidies messed with and oppose public transit, but there are fewer of those than you would think.

      @teririch Any news? We should all be concerned when a person dissapears, especially when a homeless person changs their regular habits.

  • Brilliant

    Oops, that should be “leeching”!

  • waltyss

    Brilliant, if I spew bile, you vomit it I have yet to see you post something either positive or constructive on any site. Makes you wonder, don’t it.
    However one thing is sure, you are always wrong. This time again, you hit the wrong as can be button. I am not an academic, civil servant “or engaged in some other job keaching (or leeching” off the public purse”. I do recognize people who have nothing useful to contribute and so they turn to vomitting out their self loathing. I pity you!
    Just so you know, I work in the private sector and do not receive public funds directly or indirectly.

  • teririch


    You seem to lack basic reading and comprehension skills.

    Try re-reading my original post and see if you ‘get it’. (However, I highly doubt it, put I do hold out hope every once in a while)

    FYI – there were eye witnessess as to what transpired that morning.

    ‘Remarkably vile posting’ – try holding the same mirror to yourself that you do eveyone else.

    You, Meggs, Jang – all cut from the same cloth when it comes to the attacks vs addressing the issue at hand.

    You have nothing constructive to offer – so out come the snipes.

    To those that have contacted me with ‘constuctive input’ and there have been many, I thank you. I will find Chris – not giving up. We (and I speak for more than myself) in the neighborhood want to know that he is okay.

    • waltyss

      No-one is arguing with your attempts to find him or what happened to him. I am arguing with your vile attempts to suggest that this is a gestapo like attempt by the City government to remove or disappear this guy.
      I do not apologize for calling that vile because you have not a shred of evidence to prove it is anything of the sort. If you did, you would be parading it.
      That you showed some humanity in caring about this guy, while surprising, is completely commendable. The rest however sours that speck of humanity.

  • teririch

    What a surprise: (4) City planners are stating that Vancouver’s population is growing at a rapid rate and that the ‘City’ needs to focus on more than just bike lanes and laneway housing – we don’t have the ammenities etc to support the growth.