Vancouver's newest community centre facility at John Hendry Park
The discussion about taxation got heated and personal this past week with a volley by SFU City Program Director Gord Price toward the Canadian Taxpayers Federation and its BC Director Jordan Bateman. Price, who is a sometimes contributor to CityCaucus.com, accused the CTF of 'de-legitimizing government" by a relentless questioning about public spending. Bateman appeared to have been blindsided by Price's commentary, and gave a full rebuttal on his blog.
We're going to post the commentary of Gord Price and Jordan Bateman in full here on CityCaucus.com over the next couple of days. We'll follow it up with some more commentary on this subject, including by a new featured writer that we're very pleased to introduce. And now, here's Gord Price's post…
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What we get for our taxes
As municipal budgetary deadlines approach, expect to hear a lot from the Canadian Taxpayers Federation – in particular, spokesperson Jordan Bateman, an ex-Langley Township councillor whose profession is now the de-legitimization of government through a relentless attack on taxes.
The CTF position: municipal budgets should not go up beyond the rate of inflation. Which means, essentially, no increase in the provision of ‘public goods’ – those services and structures which we fund collectively – and over time, a diminishment in the role and presence of government in our lives, accompanied by the assumption that the private sector can do it better.
So what is an example of a collective good funded by municipal government that has required an increase in property taxes above inflation? Well, there’s the newly opened Trout Lake Community Centre. Inspired by Stephen Quinn’s column in The Globe, I went over for a look this weekend. And I found out that he was right:
My new community centre is vast and beautiful, all curves and asymmetrical lines, carved of concrete, glass and aluminum, with an entrance that practically begs you to come inside.
The interior is airy and open, offering mountain views from many of the rooms, and views of John Hendry Park from others. At night, the lights of Grouse Mountain shimmer in the distance as you exit.
It is the latest in a new wave of grand community centres that have up sprung up across the city.
Trout Lake followed Sunset (below), and Creekside, and Hillcrest (below), and Kensington – each a stunning addition, immediately embraced by the surrounding community – the people who pay for them. Happily. Because they got something so tangibly better for the additional dollars they were taxed.
What Jordan implies, of course, is that because they are collective goods, not provided by the private-sector, they are somehow illegitimate or excessive. And he’s probably right: these community centres could have been done cheaper, or not at all.
After all, do we really need them? Most cities don’t, not on this scale, not this luxurious. Fitness facilities are certainly something the private sector could provide, earning a profit for those who take the risk to invest in them. And our property taxes could be lower as a result.
What Jordan and the CTF don’t want to acknowledge is the collective benefits that result from the way Canadians are prepared to tax themselves – the benefits which often cannot be measured, at least in dollars. There’s that very notion of ‘community’ – a place where all people are welcome, regardless of class or income, and regardless of where they live.
Look at that list again. All the new community centres of this quality have been built on the east side of Vancouver. They serve disproportionately the less well off and the more vulnerable. A quick glance at the ice rink at Trout Lake shows right away that this is a place where recent immigrants, notably their children, are introduced to the Canadian way of life. What’s that worth?
The U.S. has had 40 years of people like Jordan repeating the mantra of ’No More Taxes,’ of private-sector superiority, of de-regulation. They have levered the inefficiencies of government and resentment of its employees to support a generalized attack in order to constrain and de-fund government at every opportunity. And the consequences are now evident: profound and rising inequality. Not, I think, a coincidence.
That’s what the CTF really doesn’t want to talk about in the same sentence: inequality. So instead they focus on waste and wages, and not what you feel when walking into the Trout Lake Community Centre: that sense of jointly shared expense and benefit – across the city, across the social spectrum.
Remember that when the tax notice comes. We pay more taxes because we get more value for a collective good. Ourselves. Our community.
- Post by Gord Price. Originally published on the Price Tags blog.
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Before we dig into the issues, three thumbs up to City Caucus, Gordon Price and Jordan Bateman for having an open conversation on this.
The critical point is that (i) there are public goods and (ii) that public goods are better provided by the public sector. This is Jane Jacobs argument in Dark Ages Ahead.
One can agree with this and disagree on what should be considered a public good.
The catastrophic failure of discourse and policy in the US is that a large number of people do not believe there are public goods and are not willing to pay for them (although they tend to be eager to consume them).
I have found no consistent evidence that the private sector is more efficient than the public sector in delivering public goods. I know it is an article of faith by some that government is inefficient. It can be. But so can the private sector.
The main advantage of the private sector over the public sector is that it better implements evolutionary algorithms – encourage variation, select, mix up, repeat. We do need to make sure that government programs have variety, selection mechanisms, and that we do not continue to invest in failed programs.
While I’m certainly no anti-tax voter, do the community centres have to be such high-style architectural showpieces? Does that really add to their usefulness? What is the impact of all that glass on maintenance, heating and cooling? Does the community appreciate them more due to their design, or simply because the old spaces had grown too small for a growing community and not been properly maintained over the years?
Mr. Price fails to differentiate between capital spending and operating costs in his analysis and he omits the second part of the CTF position on municipal budgets – they could exceed the rate of inflation if “explicit permission is sought from the public through a referendum”. If people “happily” pay their taxes in order to enjoy their community services then getting their explicit consent should not prove a problem.
Mr. Price has set up a straw man that he can knock down and avoid addressing the legitimate concerns some of us have on public spending.
No rational person would deny that public services are essential to maximize the wealth our economy can generate. And we can agree that there are many services that must be directly provided by government – the police, judiciary, fire protection, military just to identify a few. But there are other services (such as garbage, parks and road maintenance) where it may be appropriate for the private sector to deliver public services.
As well, there is a question of compensation for the public sector. There is absolutely no reason why the public sector should enjoy siginificantly better compensation than the private sector. Given that wages account for most of the municipal budgets, having such a bylaw to cap increases would force weak willed politicians to hold the line on wages or get consent from the taxpayer.
What irks me about certain public sector compensation deals is that many of them are still ‘defined benefit’. Very few of us get defined benefit compensation any more and with demographic trends being what they are they are certain to bankrupt any organization that must support them.
Also, we can’t have all forms of spending (private and public) continue to expand faster than GDP growth – somethings gotta give.
My personal goal is to spend more on fewer things, buying mostly things that I can see lasting most of the rest of my life (that seems to get shorter every year!). Not sure how I will approach smart phones though – I guess I will continue to get gouged there for quite a while.
Well, there is no reason why the private sector should pay significantly less than the public sector. And actually, the private sector does pay a lot more for top management. Problem is they pay less for the average worker. It is time the private sector step up their game. For starters, they should at least stop fighting increases in the minimum wage.
Ironically, while they complain about supposedly high wages in the public sector, many businesses do quite well because these workers have the money to spend at their businesses.
There are real problems in countries where public sector wages are too low. Workers are forced to be “creative” when finding ways to supplement their inadequate wages. These ways are rarely in the public interest. Canada ranks high among countries for lack of corruption and I strongly suspect a well paid professional public service is a big reason for this.
I think that having “high-style showpieces” does increase the social value of these buildings. The design does make them a lot more usable and in the case Trout Lake (the only one I have used) much more engaging spaces to be in. Our public spaces should be high-quality. The quality of public space is one of the things that for me defines the quality of a city and makes me want to live in it and contribute to it. I would like to see Vancouver invest a lot more in design as I think it pays returns in many ways – usefulness and longevity of the space, social impact, attractiveness of the city.
@Steven Forth
I’m not sure those designs will lead to longevity. I question the swoopy design of Sunset to stand the test of time in Vancouver’s unforgiving rain. There’s also the issue of how to add an extension onto such a distinctive design as the city densifies.
Should the city even be in the fitness centre business? Its cheaper for me to go monthly to Fitness World than my nearest community centre.
“Also, we can’t have all forms of spending (private and public) continue to expand faster than GDP growth – somethings gotta give.”
This is precisely the problem and we need leaders that will stand up and tell us that the western economies can not support our lifestyle and that we are all going to have to accept less through higher taxation/user fees, less OAP, reduced MP and public sector pensions and take more direct responsibility for our choices such as in healthcare just to name a few.
Unfortunately, columns like Gordon Price’s fosters the polarization we see in the US where the Republicans say no increases in taxes and the Democrats do not want to make meaningful cuts in spending. In fact taxing the rich or cuts to the public sector alone will not solve the problem.
And I agree with your view that we have become a society obsessed with process, mainly because process pays. You just have to look at the Aboriginal industry, Poverty industry or Climate change industry to see the billions that have been spent on process with not enough outcome to show for it. We need to make outcomes profitable and not process.
You write as though all the employers in the private sector get together and decide how much to pay their employees. In fact, employers must compete for talent and, in some cases, bargain with unions while at the same time having to be competitive in the goods and services they are producing. If anything, the private sector is a better indicator of fair compensation and public sector compensation should be based on it.
As for that old canard – pay public sector workers more and they will spend in local businesses – why not pay public sector employees less, reduce taxes and then everyone else will have more money to spend in local businesses.
I drive by Sunset on a regular basis. As a point of trivia, my big brother was one of the dignitaries back in 1950? that opened the original Sunset with Bing Crosby. He was 3 and very cute.
I question the fitness centre as well. I never see more that a couple of people using the equipment. However, the darling little kids that take dancing classes are almost enough to make you drive off the road.
I would have liked to see them use all that green space around it for a community garden, or at least tie in to the nursery next door that is owned by the Parks Board.
Sadly, the old site is sitting empty and unused. I hope they try and do something creative.
@ Steven Forth I quote you “I have found no consistent evidence that the private sector is more efficient than the public sector in delivering public goods”.
This is the most erroneous statement you have typed on any blog in a long time. The notion that any building project (design & build) is better because it is a public sector project is pure nonsense. Just because most industry will not back projects put forward by your smarmy ilk does not make the private sector less efficient. Rather the decision of many private sector companies to stay away says far more than what a delusional blogger can ever attempt to. You are quick to judge one branch of govt. for taxation while backslapping another for exactly the same behavior.
Good point on capital versus operating budget. As a for instance, under the COV collective agreement with CUPE 1004 Parks & Recreation, a greenskeeper working at one of the three municipal golf courses earns $30.25/hr with full benefits and a defined benefit pension plan that adds about 10% to the hourly wage. By comparison, a greenskeeper at the Marine Drive/Meadow Gardens is paid a top rate of $21.25/hr, benefits are cost shared with the employer paying 70% and there is no 10% lopped on for the golden COV defined benefit pension plan. So the question is should public sector employees who work in these non-core services
earn a 50% premium above their private sector counter parts? And should the tax payer fund this economic rent?
Richard:
Just a quick note; no one is tied to a job for life. If you don’t like the wage, terms, benefits etc, you have the option of leaving and finding something else.
This seems to be lost on many public sector employees.
They expect the employer to bend to them. Or, that is what their union has led them to believe.
You made some great information there. I did a searching on the subject and found plenty of people should agree with your blog.
Thanks for the reply sir, definitely the bread board is my fault. I have the correct components. where do we get glass fiber pcb’s? and how do they look like? this is the first time i am hearing that name..
How long of a string of LED rope lights does it take to get a decent amount of light in a bedroom?
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